discussion of 'DEEPLYSTRUCK' release of ind3ds(and some other stuff), part of chat between Alex Mizrahi and Vladimir Suhoy happened on 14.07.02
DIZLAMER:(you are personally responsible for..)
Alex says :  hello
Vladimir says :  Hi
Alex says :  so should i post news to openglorg?
Vladimir says :  Post. It seems mostly working for OpenGL.
Alex says :  but this core has a lot of bugs.. surely, we cant fix all and even add new when fix this.
Vladimir says :  But I still wonder how ind3ds managed to save scenes with dead stream editor.
Alex says :  btw, have you seen http://indirect3d.sourceforge.net/3dui.html ?
Alex says :  and what should i post to openglorg?
Alex says :  OpenGL-accelerated 3D Calculator for Win32
Simple 3d calculator based on opensource Indirect3D framework which can be used for rapid 3D UI development.

Vladimir says :  Indirect3D framework release 0.8 features tools 3D UI creation.
Alex says :  for them to laugh? 'indirect3d framework', 'tools'. do you have docs on this tools?
Vladimir says :  Samples are 3D calculator and 3D fifteen puzzle.
Alex says :  could you use this tools before i've explained you how to?
Vladimir says :  Well... Obviously I wrote some stuff myself.
Vladimir says :  It becomes easy after some time.
Alex says :  surely, there is no application which reveals all it's abilities w/o practice. but i'm not sure that it's possible to learn using ind3d w/o docs even for pretty clever person.
Vladimir says :  Fuck, somebody downloaded nabla compiler. Somebody used Iridescent.
Vladimir says :  Somebody downloaded early alphas of i3dcpp.
Alex says :  i acutally hope that somebody will join writting ind3d. or at least some beta-testing. it's too tricky for final users yet.
Alex says :  Iridescent is pretty useful thing. and there are complete docs.
Alex says :  they do download all chunk we release 8-]
Alex says :  all shit we release
Alex says :  or junk.
Vladimir says :  There's no need to document, if we'll change a lot.
Alex says :  me knowz.
Vladimir says :  We have samples, we have some (maybe bad) screenshots, we have even some working stuff! What do they need then?
Alex says :  btw we had ~2000 visitors in one day on tc page.
Alex says :  anyway some thousands will come
Alex says :  but we recieve too few feedback on indirect3d
Alex says :  new stats will help to learn what people want and what do they phear.
Vladimir says :  Because we were very silent.
Vladimir says :  And there was nothing (maybe except Hellfire) to show.
Vladimir says :  We cant do _all_ stuff - even PYTHON community, where are hundreds of programmers have old docs.
Vladimir says :  Somebody will join, somebody will look, and somebody can even write feedback.
Alex says :  i think that '3d calculator' topic will recieve much more visitors than 'new ind3d release'. that who need scenegraph will come on 3d calc too, but dummy users wouldnt.
Alex says :  ye, we had some
Vladimir says :  I read whole news post, so we'll write "new release features 3d calculator demo"
Alex says :  somebody says that he uses tc/irid 'frequently'.
Alex says :  brrr. i'm shame of such release.
Alex says :  in log you've said it's almost finished _week_after_it_was_released_. and still there is invalid version.
Vladimir says :  Mesa had _bug_ in their 3.08 release, so what fuck!
Vladimir says :  So, you write post. Hundreds will come and maybe some will stay or at least say something.
Vladimir says :  Misha can write _russian_ tutorial?
Alex says :  so, i'll better post '3d calculator'? we dont even have buttons and text in i3dcpp.. brrr...
Alex says :  i'll ask him. i'm not sure that he will use ind3d.
Vladimir says :  I'll translate it.
Alex says :  i dont believe he can write tutorial.
Vladimir says :  And you think, that I can? Its very hard work, harder than writing.
Alex says :  i will.
Alex says :  but i dont know all things in indirect3d.
Vladimir says :  I can write component help on FFStandart with detailed descriptions of properties.
Alex says :  ok
Vladimir says :  There is also meshdrawing stuff, which is mostly unknown even by me
Alex says :  when we'll write that will be an release. now it's some kind of bullshit 8[
Alex says :  i'll also port texture font.
Alex says :  3d UI tools w/o font is something..
Vladimir says :  There's ff_fifteen too, so post should be "3D Calculator and 3D fifteen puzzle with Indirect3D framework"
Alex says :  i've posted..
Alex says :  too late..
Alex says :  do you think that fifteen puzzle in topic will increase amount of visitors?
Alex says :  so, our next project will be 3d site? or just stable release?(this was 'stable bug release')
Vladimir says :  Maybe, some people look for fifteen puzzle
Vladimir says :  This was real _alpha_ release.
Alex says :  they will be able to find it using google some weeks later.
Alex says :  one more alpha.
Alex says :  you remember were we going to do beta year ago?
Alex says :  but there were new meshes//
Vladimir says :  No others were Z(a--) releases.
Alex says :  RELEASE is always 'gamma'. alpha is a version for internal testing.
Vladimir says :  And what's Z release?
Alex says :  but it's one of opensource concepts - 'release often, release early'
Alex says :  they say that some programs are never released..
Alex says :  even commercially succesive
Vladimir says :  Oh sorry, not Z but ` release/
Vladimir says :  ` Indirect3D release
Alex says :  dot release.. dot net..
Vladimir says :  apostroph release.
Alex says :  .Indirect3D/Fastfruit core v0.8 'DEEPLYSTRUCK'..

Alex says :  this is from readme.
Alex says :  really dot release.
Vladimir says :  .Indirect3d .framework .release
Alex says :  .Indirect3D/framework/release\\
Vladimir says :  At last we dont get paid for it.
Alex says :  ye
Alex says :  but dont you think if we write quality things we've got paid?
Alex says :  yepp!
Vladimir says :  We are trying. Something is even working, some stuff is even slightly compatible.
Alex says :  we are quite near to get payed. some banners, or that amazon donation stuff, popularization of releases, their support.. but i dont like to breed shit..
Alex says :  i mean real apps like TC.
Vladimir says :  You know I've seen strange topics there , smth like "GLGooey toolkit improves compatibility".
Vladimir says :  Indirect3D toolkit improves compatibility of last release.
Alex says :  ye, and i've even seen this GLGooey. our only concurent is Macromedia Flash. really killer thing.
Alex says :  hehehhe(in russian)
Vladimir says :  Is it really cool?
Vladimir says :  GLGooey?
Alex says :  they mean that it's compatible with different oSes. but they use some frameworks, and their small toolkit weights 900kb, when complete i3d core with 3dsftk and nvtristip only 644.
Alex says :  GLGooey sucks hard. just some helper stuff like log. better than wogl, but..
Vladimir says :  "Indirect3D toolkit improves compatibility between c++ and delphi implementations"!!
Vladimir says :  We'll see what happens with this release and then post next.
Vladimir says :  With "improved compatibility".
Alex says :  maybe place this log on a site? ascii artists sometimes include IRC logs in their artpacks.